tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post5385057366392423849..comments2024-03-17T11:10:04.872-07:00Comments on Grateful Dead Guide: The Europe '72 Overdubs (Guest Post) Light Into Asheshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comBlogger95125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-75087779979241852682024-03-04T06:16:49.148-08:002024-03-04T06:16:49.148-08:00This is probably the thing that irks me the most a...This is probably the thing that irks me the most about this box set. Well, and the mixes probably not being as good as they could have been give more time to be worked on. But why didn't they use the 2 tracks to replace any song that had overdubs (and didn't have the original live multis available)? I think most people here would have preferred the unaltered live versions of the Europe 72Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-67916119054224130392024-02-10T00:46:02.139-08:002024-02-10T00:46:02.139-08:00If you have the box set, there's no need for R...If you have the box set, there's no need for Rockin' the Rhein, however you should check out Steppin' Out since it's all mixed quite differently than the box. <br />And of course I recommend any circulating SBD tapes as unaltered alternatives to the official mixes. You know you're hearing what was actually played, flubs, stray vocals, piano and all.Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-30362195381512900632024-02-07T17:27:45.503-08:002024-02-07T17:27:45.503-08:00Good (wavy) gravy, I'm so confused! How many v...Good (wavy) gravy, I'm so confused! How many versions of Europe 72 are there? There's:<br />1. the original triple LP (which got me on the bus way back when),<br />2. Hundred Year Hall (4-26-27, 1995)<br />3. Steppin' Out (2002, 5.25 hours culled from 7 performances in England)<br />4. Europe 72 expanded (a few tracks added to the original LP, 2003)<br />5. Rockin' the Rhein (2004Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-13773549448120809752023-10-05T11:47:39.116-07:002023-10-05T11:47:39.116-07:00Excellent piece of research, kudos to all. I have ...Excellent piece of research, kudos to all. I have to wonder, though, why Bill K needed just about a third of the available tracks for his drum kit. It looks like the only piece of it that wasn't tracked was the stool. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-81814376138877131062022-12-08T16:16:13.107-08:002022-12-08T16:16:13.107-08:00THANK YOU. Finally. Funny, because the “old crappy...THANK YOU. Finally. Funny, because the “old crappy circulating tape” is a pretty good edit! This scenario makes the most sense, but it’s a relief to know exactly where the substitute version came from. Good thing we got the correction, because the real 4/24 is smokin’!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-39715501925560298282022-12-03T04:55:30.545-08:002022-12-03T04:55:30.545-08:00That's a good find, and a tricky edit indeed! ...That's a good find, and a tricky edit indeed! <br />After some searching, I believe the old crappy circulating tape of 4/24 actually substituted a different Saturday Night -- from 5/18. (The AUD portion, and the official release, are from the genuine 4/24.) <br />How a song from a different show got stuck onto that tape, who knows, but it sounds like the 5/18 Saturday Night to me.Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-67222459800595101262022-12-02T23:55:44.269-08:002022-12-02T23:55:44.269-08:00I'm guilty of being a little obsessive about t...I'm guilty of being a little obsessive about these things and taking them a bit too seriously sometimes, I mean I'm pissed they took out Weir's "guess you know about that" on the 4/26 Uncle, but even I have to draw a line with One More Saturday Night. While no version from the tour doesn't rock, I'm usually lying when I say I've listened to the whole tour in Jim Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07775659356285581409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-27485546018818510272022-11-30T20:09:16.570-08:002022-11-30T20:09:16.570-08:00I'm renewing my search for an answer about a p...I'm renewing my search for an answer about a possible patch in the box set for the 4/24 One More Saturday Night. On the archive source we've had forever, the SBD fades into an AUD with about 40 seconds left. This last AUD part matches the official release; however, everything before this point is completely different. The Rockin' the Rhein/Europe 72 box soundboard and the archive Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-20734558000438981592022-11-03T12:50:16.562-07:002022-11-03T12:50:16.562-07:00On the source of 5/11/72 Rotterdam that started ci...On the source of 5/11/72 Rotterdam that started circulating in the 90's and is on the Archive, you can hear the audience track by itself at the beginning of "Playing In The Band," as the engineer dials in the mix (fortunately getting it right just in time for the jam).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-38613819691586050942022-11-03T12:48:47.138-07:002022-11-03T12:48:47.138-07:00Jamie Howarth of Plangent Processes posted a comme...Jamie Howarth of Plangent Processes posted a comment at the Steve Hoffman Forums touching on the piano overdubs and the sped-up songs on the album: "...[T]hey locked to line frequency which in Europe was from a generator that varied 60.1 60.2 59.9 Hz, and the Hammond and everything else (except the piano) chased it. That's why a lot of piano was overdubbed on the Europe 72 3 LP set. ThenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-14362227389946232612022-09-05T15:35:56.605-07:002022-09-05T15:35:56.605-07:00Yes, that does put it in a perspective I hadn'...Yes, that does put it in a perspective I hadn't considered. I'm no expert on the science of sound, I just pick up on differences in feel but can't explain why they're different. I suppose a really simple way of thinking about it would be to compare tapes where you hear the bass notes clearly and loudly in the mix but don't feel the bass, and any attempt to raise the lows with Jim Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07775659356285581409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-57071019945122547112022-09-03T18:56:34.070-07:002022-09-03T18:56:34.070-07:00A lot of the double tracking bass has to do with t...A lot of the double tracking bass has to do with the hi and low end. Basically having an independent control over how low to highs you get when mixing the track in the studio. Usually, when an instrument is recorded on a mono track, all frequencies are lumped together and we use EQs (whether digital or analog) to boost bass or treble if need be. But when you start manipulating one area of the Zinzeohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03945689327346764889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-88595803260871409162022-06-13T01:11:38.290-07:002022-06-13T01:11:38.290-07:00The last episode includes a summary of the overdub...The last episode includes a summary of the overdub dates: <br />https://www.dead.net/deadcast/europe-72-epilogue <br />Lots of work on those vocals... <br />But it's kind of ironic that we have a better chronology of the studio dates for this live album than we do for some of the Dead's earlier studio albums! Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-86984364860111600772022-06-13T01:01:42.109-07:002022-06-13T01:01:42.109-07:00When they recorded the Live/Dead shows in '69,...When they recorded the Live/Dead shows in '69, they also used two tracks for Phil's bass. This puzzles me too. <br />One technique they used when recording their studio albums in 1970 was to record the bass on two tracks, but each track would use a different mic so the tracks would capture different bass tones that could be combined. I don't know whether the live recordings used the Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-56262225655081712802022-06-04T16:41:44.186-07:002022-06-04T16:41:44.186-07:00I mostly did the whole tour once again this year, ...I mostly did the whole tour once again this year, and enjoyed it just as much as last if not more. I wish I had referenced this post and comment section before listening to each show, I definitely noticed one or two moments where I could hear the brief switch to the two tracks to cover flips, but don't remember at all where they occurred. I also remember noticing Donna's missing "Jim Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07775659356285581409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-9439521986560021142022-06-04T11:06:23.764-07:002022-06-04T11:06:23.764-07:00Good to get this context. I, like others, remembe...Good to get this context. I, like others, remember being so frustrated at Keith's levels in the mix after getting the set. Such a shame.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-25463892467162811362022-06-04T11:01:17.910-07:002022-06-04T11:01:17.910-07:00Jesse also mentioned that all the vocal tracks for...Jesse also mentioned that all the vocal tracks for Beat it on Down the Line (I believe from May 16 but possibly the 18th) were also recorded over for the overdubs by Jerry, Bob, and Phil - can't find the quote but remember he played a snippet. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-55104083697492453162022-05-11T21:58:55.252-07:002022-05-11T21:58:55.252-07:00Another recent radio interview with Jeff Norman in...Another recent radio interview with Jeff Norman in which he talks about mixing the Europe '72 box set: <br />https://kboo.fm/media/109284-grateful-dead-and-friends-050722 (about an hour in)<br />He was on "a tight budget" for this set, and rented a studio for five months, mixing a show a week. "It didn't turn out as well as I wanted it to." Usually on multitracks, he&#Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-41058297224800861732022-05-10T22:48:31.996-07:002022-05-10T22:48:31.996-07:00Thanks for the notes. They put a lot of work into ...Thanks for the notes. They put a lot of work into those vocal overdubs! But that partly ironed out the "live" feel on the album.... Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-14648757850216547302022-05-09T04:58:35.903-07:002022-05-09T04:58:35.903-07:00Here are Jesse Jarnow's overdub comments so fa...Here are Jesse Jarnow's overdub comments so far in the Europe '72 deadcasts<br />https://www.dead.net/deadcast<br /><br />Cumberland Blues 1972-04-08 from 61:20 in Episode 2 Empire Pool & Newcastle<br />"The vocals on the Europe '72 version of Cumberland Blues are overdubbed, all of them. Often the lead vocalist would overdub their new vocal on a spare track on the tape runonguinnesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11089424718490613109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-13910945350116519452022-01-11T13:22:37.978-08:002022-01-11T13:22:37.978-08:00Good point. While most of the album overdubs were ...Good point. While most of the album overdubs were either vocals or piano, with the guitars left alone, Weir apparently did replace his guitar part on Jack Straw, and may have on China>Rider as well. With the original live tracks for these songs unavailable, we can't compare. Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-78019370019934007832022-01-10T22:51:06.473-08:002022-01-10T22:51:06.473-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Zinzeohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03945689327346764889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-82261886126347165232020-12-21T16:12:30.390-08:002020-12-21T16:12:30.390-08:00I think an interesting approach to this could be f...I think an interesting approach to this could be figuring out where all the splices are in the box set that were either patched or unpatched. <br /><br />Examples of these include the 4/8 Caution being patched with the two track (not done on Steppin out) or the mystery of the 5/11 OMSN. <br /><br />So far I'm relistening to the tour and I'm up to 4/17 but I can't pick up on any other Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06281961590780818928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-44982251279756253392020-06-13T12:47:09.867-07:002020-06-13T12:47:09.867-07:00I don't think it would be overwhelmingly long,...I don't think it would be overwhelmingly long, but I wouldn't see much benefit in doing so. And in the end, there's really only one main conclusion: turn up Pigpen's organ!Jim Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07775659356285581409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-49733233810540642592020-06-12T13:56:18.939-07:002020-06-12T13:56:18.939-07:00No, I don't believe so. Depending on how much ...No, I don't believe so. Depending on how much detail is included, a list of the mix differences through the whole tour could be overwhelmingly long. Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.com