tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post175440558574063107..comments2024-03-27T02:55:04.190-07:00Comments on Grateful Dead Guide: China>Rider - The Early YearsLight Into Asheshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-11122885633840024812020-07-14T12:44:21.029-07:002020-07-14T12:44:21.029-07:00I assumed the same. Seems like a lift or "tri...I assumed the same. Seems like a lift or "tribute" :)TexasDanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08384995000866096182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-22761871160245731472020-07-10T14:37:30.133-07:002020-07-10T14:37:30.133-07:00Another great pseudo-version is by Terry Callier -...Another great pseudo-version is by Terry Callier - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwKFTJhm8HkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-54976760803230412052018-05-14T19:54:00.487-07:002018-05-14T19:54:00.487-07:00Here is how the verse order in 1966 Riders changed...Here is how the verse order in 1966 Riders changed over the year: <br /><br />1/28, 3/12 & studio - <br />I know you rider<br />Lay down last night<br />solo <br />I know you rider <br />I know you rider<br /><br />"2/25" (May), 5/19, 7/16, 7/29 - <br />I know you rider <br />Lay down last night<br />solo<br />I drink muddy water <br />The sun will shine <br />I know you rider<br />Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-1154085264455144152017-11-22T08:00:24.517-08:002017-11-22T08:00:24.517-08:00I hear it plain as day. I assumed Weir was directl...I hear it plain as day. I assumed Weir was directly quoting Still's part during the transition into the last part of SJBE<br />David Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03196229907169077032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-18520207771758630772017-07-28T17:30:42.389-07:002017-07-28T17:30:42.389-07:00Continuing with the early electric I Know You Ride...Continuing with the early electric I Know You Riders: <br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9py46oX8HGg - Big Brother & Janis 1966 (live) <br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShiawtKhAWo - the Byrds 1966 (I Know My Rider, unreleased) <br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QZ-7s3b6bs - the Astronauts 1967 (a pop single) <br /><br />Meanwhile, acoustic versions were moving farther afieldLight Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-13059082949254855082017-07-27T19:08:26.840-07:002017-07-27T19:08:26.840-07:00I've been checking out the other recorded I Kn...I've been checking out the other recorded I Know You Riders from the folk scene of the early '60s: <br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBiiH2fqE24 - Tossi Aaron 1960 (first recording)<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbVtL_SNLa4 - Joan Baez 1960 (but unreleased)<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjorB4X1LeU - Judy Henske 1963<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7so5tECqKMYLight Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-77384203671795212282017-06-17T09:17:08.935-07:002017-06-17T09:17:08.935-07:00Good point, Phil introduced Feelin' Groovy to ...Good point, Phil introduced Feelin' Groovy to China>Rider; they almost get into a jam on 2/26/73. They'd done a full Feelin' Groovy jam on 2/24/73 (after Eyes), which I think was the last time it was played without a Rider attached.<br />Phil seems to have been very attached to the Feelin' Groovy line, popping it into several 1972 Dark Stars as well. There are a few times in Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-72037946196216341422017-06-16T13:14:07.422-07:002017-06-16T13:14:07.422-07:00Great write up LIA! But about this: "The firs...Great write up LIA! But about this: "The first time Feelin' Groovy entered the China>Rider transition was on 3/16/73 - the Dead started the show with it, as if eager to show off their new jam." Yes, that's the first one the whole band plays it but on the two previous China>Riders, 2-26/28, Phil quite clearly plays the Feeling Groovy bass line during the transition. The Incornsyucopiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15194586063192261829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-64982731581402791162017-03-24T17:17:04.580-07:002017-03-24T17:17:04.580-07:00As an appendix, I added a short article on the evo...As an appendix, I added a short article on the evolution of China>Rider written by Andy Lemieux almost 20 years ago. I thought it was a bit too brief to post on its own, but it makes a good complement to this piece.Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-89374532434851848392016-09-29T22:57:25.642-07:002016-09-29T22:57:25.642-07:00Although not technically a single show--unless you...Although not technically a single show--unless you buy Bear's bet to the contrary--they did play the acoustic Rider and China/Rider on 5/15/70SDBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406472867038961017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-55997389377846676732016-06-24T02:30:21.487-07:002016-06-24T02:30:21.487-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.TangledHangershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14586835996969146429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-45914292412553361002016-06-24T02:27:26.724-07:002016-06-24T02:27:26.724-07:00I'd point this to anybody that wants to hear t...I'd point this to anybody that wants to hear the longest China Cat before being linked to IKYRider. Ithink a case could be made for this to be known as thelongest standalone ChinaCat, the jam ends, 3 sec drums, into Mamatried. Theres no china bleeding into Mamatried<br /><br /> Cathttps://archive.org/details/gd69-07-12.sbd-aud.hanno.4645.sbeok.shnfTangledHangershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14586835996969146429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-70034010587159247102016-03-10T09:30:53.033-08:002016-03-10T09:30:53.033-08:00Thanks for the reply, though I feel its a stretch ...Thanks for the reply, though I feel its a stretch to say it was "always jammed" into another song. IMO it usually seems like they just start the next song quickly after finishing china cat, not much transition. I believe this is the case with most the Doin that rag pairings, the "transitions" are very choppy and sound more like a band abandoning a jam, they just peter out,get TangledHangershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14586835996969146429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-37516516570043851242016-03-10T08:57:53.800-08:002016-03-10T08:57:53.800-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.TangledHangershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14586835996969146429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-52284452021302703022015-11-19T21:49:49.289-08:002015-11-19T21:49:49.289-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.TangledHangershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14586835996969146429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-53178094381606639032015-11-16T20:24:00.575-08:002015-11-16T20:24:00.575-08:006/26/74 is the longest China Cat. In general the 1...6/26/74 is the longest China Cat. In general the 1974 versions are the longest, ranging from 8-11 minutes. It was never a standalone song - it always transitioned into another song, and never had an "ending." The versions from 1969 tend to be 6 minutes or less. They often jammed it out a little more in December '69 - 12/5/69 is the longest of the year. Other notable Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-59360131714655657072015-11-16T01:33:41.020-08:002015-11-16T01:33:41.020-08:00So 6 26 74 is the longest China Cat? You'd thi...So 6 26 74 is the longest China Cat? You'd think that a stand alone version would be the longest. I've always thought that the I know your Rider pairing was the reason China was always fairly short, and that there had to be jammed out standalone versions from 69 somewhere.TangledHangershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14586835996969146429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-7662628510058786402014-09-01T21:35:24.187-07:002014-09-01T21:35:24.187-07:00China Cat never did become a longer improv piece -...China Cat never did become a longer improv piece - even to the extent that, say, Scarlet Begonias stretched out before being paired with Fire on the Mountain. Probably the loosest post-China Cat jams are in '69, when it was still fresh. For a couple months after Rider was introduced, they'd still do a nice free jam for a few minutes before entering Rider. But for the next couple years, Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-79264355479948883302014-09-01T13:33:23.015-07:002014-09-01T13:33:23.015-07:00An excellent breakdown and presentation of a wealt...An excellent breakdown and presentation of a wealth of information.<br /><br />In a bit of conjecture on my part I always felt that China Cat Sunflower was short changed by it's anchoring to I Know You Rider instead of it being developed into a longer improv piece in the way they evolved Playin' in the Band.As for Phil's vocal part on I Know You Rider I can't see how the band let jerlouvisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-90206242992472621192014-04-10T11:24:57.210-07:002014-04-10T11:24:57.210-07:00Great chronicling of this important story of how s...Great chronicling of this important story of how songs are developed. Rider is a birth the entire GD sound. Heavy rock/blues sound infused in country bluegrass tune. The '66 version changed how people perceived the possibilities of were music could go. The energy and solo from '66 are impressive works of art. Then fusing of this tune China Cat was completion of the method. I heard 71 Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04082287106271278318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-87952758554927583902014-04-06T15:29:30.424-07:002014-04-06T15:29:30.424-07:00Well, Phil sang on Rider through 1974, then stoppe...Well, Phil sang on Rider through 1974, then stopped after the hiatus. I think the only Riders in which Donna sang were the one in '77 and a few in Feb '79. I don't think it ever sounded right without Phil.<br /><br />I don't cover the later years here, but there's not a whole lot of backstory. Phil wrote that "singing high harmonies was starting to irritate my throat.&Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-21450980411620786632014-04-06T08:01:59.094-07:002014-04-06T08:01:59.094-07:00Thanks for writing this --China/Rider was always o...Thanks for writing this --China/Rider was always one of their best, so much so that it's almost easy to take for granted. It was always so dependably good.<br /><br />It seems to me that one change in the arrangement that you don't mention is the effect of Phil's vocals being phased out, after being such a prominent feature --on Rider in particular. (It feels, anecdotally, like he JJ Gildersneezenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-78304864653072093342013-06-12T13:22:52.533-07:002013-06-12T13:22:52.533-07:00Thanks for catching that! I made the correction. I...Thanks for catching that! I made the correction. It's an amazing moment when they go into China Cat...Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-65016874788558261862013-06-12T09:02:13.517-07:002013-06-12T09:02:13.517-07:00Jan 2, 1972 appears to be Good Lovin' > Chi...Jan 2, 1972 appears to be Good Lovin' > China Cat > Good Lovin', with no Rider. Can you address this?<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-508596483308849125.post-50422906729704805042012-01-05T17:38:49.696-08:002012-01-05T17:38:49.696-08:00I think Pigpen's organ playing was very minima...I think Pigpen's organ playing was very minimal in the first year or so after TC left. Though I haven't tried to trace what he played in each song, I think he often preferred to sit out rather than learn (or re-learn) the parts, other than in a few select songs. More song-by-song research is required here, though!Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.com